Episode 1 - Infection

Episode 1: Infection


[theme song plays]

Dean: Hello friends! I’m Dean, he/him.

Dan: Hello, I’m Dan, he/him as well.

Roxy: Hi, I’m Roxy, she/her.

Dean: This is our first episode of the adventure known as It Came from a Basement.

Dan: It’s the inaugural journey, right?

Dean: The inaugural… the flagship-

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: The flagship launch… what’s the… mother… MAIDEN VOYAGE!

Dan: Yes, that’s it. [laughter]

Dean: The maiden voyage of our adventure.

Roxy: I can see our friends and family waving at us and smashing bottles…


Dean: There they are!

Roxy: Yeah, bye...

Dan: Bye.

Dean: So how ‘bout we, do a quick description of what’s goin’ on in this one? Would you like to take this away, Roxy?

Roxy: So, my dad found a binder… full of movies… in some, like, abandoned house? Or something, some house he was working on, I don’t know… uh...

Dan: What was the work he was doing?

Dean: Yeah?

Roxy: He’s a construction worker, so theoretically construction, but… you know...

Dean: [laughs] Theoretical construction?

Roxy: Knowing my father it could’ve been anything.

Dean: Like, really, hypothetical mapping out of new things.

Roxy: He could have been looking at fake birds in the trees for all I know.

Roxy: A very real thing, I don’t want to talk about it…

Dean: [laughs]

Dan: [laughs like he he he ho HO!] Alright. We’ll just blow right by that one…

Roxy: That’s fine… yeah, he found this binder and he came home and was like “Hey, uh, this is cool.” And I flipped through it and was like, “This all looks like weird… shit in here.”

Dean: A full DVD binder of discs… how many? 96?

Roxy: 96 discs.

Dean: 96 discs of…

Dan: 96. Nothing to scoff on.

Roxy: No… that’s a full collection.

Dean: Most of them are like horror… and horror adjacent… and like low budget sort of… There’s a lot of like Asylum movies in here. A lot of weird ones that we’ll get into.

Dan: Yeah it’s a weird smattering of stuff you’d laugh at passing through on what you really want to watch. Right? And then the occasional masterpiece is just kind of thrown in? It’s a really interesting, eclectic kind of collection.

Dean: So… through some sort of force that none of us can quite explain, we are-

Dan: Like a pull, like deep in your gut, like a compulsion, right?

Dean: Yeah, I’m not sure where it comes from, but… since I heard about this...

Dan, slight crosstalk: It doesn’t feel INTERNAL, well, it IS internal…

Roxy: I think I know where it came from…

Dean: [laughter]

Dean: It’s too early for that…

Dan: [laughter]

Dean: Well, like deep within me, when I heard the story of The Binder I felt compelled to watch every single disc and talk about them.

Dan: Mhm.

Dean: So, I feel like you’ve done the same…

Dan: Yeah, everywhere I look I keep seeing it! So I am assuming… ya know…

Dean: There’s something to it!

Dan: There’s some.. force? Maybe? Beyond our kind of perception? I don’t know. Just guesses.

Dean: Mysteries of the universe, I think we’re just gonna just blow past that right now.

Dan: I don’t think it’s important.

Dean: I don’t think it’s really important to the deep lore. Um…

Roxy: The deep, deep lore.

Dean, laughing: Deep, deep lore… So, we’re gonna… start? I think… just dive right into our first movie? Which is Infection.

[a trailer for Infection plays… it is entirely in Japanese]

Dean: It’s a J-Horror film from 2004, directed by Masayuki Ochiai. Who directed a Parasite Eve movie and a few other things that I am forgetting at the moment ‘cause I didn’t write them down.

Roxy: He directed the two final Ju-on movies? Also known as The Grudge in the United States. The Japanese version of that… A couple horror anthology things.

Dean: Yes! This movie was made for the J-Horror Theater anthology. It was like the first, or the second… I think it was the first entry. And they all have -tion kind of names, it’s like Infection, Premonition, Resolution or something… They’re all that kinda names…

Roxy: They, they released over the course of like seven years, or something, like 2004 to 2010?

Dean, slight crosstalk: I think so. That sounds about right.

Roxy: And they were inspired after The Ring was really successful.

Dean: Yeah, they were like, we gotta do a lotta these.

Dean: Which is weird, because… this movie… doesn’t feel… like The Ring? Wanna give a special shout out to the cinematographer on this film: Hatsuaki Matsui? Who did like two other movies ever? It was this and-

Dan, slight crosstalk: Really? That sounds like a crime!

Dean: It was this, some other movie that, like, didn’t have a title, or… there was conflicting information when I looked it up, and then a surfing movie. Like, that was in 2006. Like, that was two years later. Yeah.

Dan and Roxy: Wow!

Dan: Aw, man.

Dean: Yeah!

Roxy: What a life…

Dean: Like it’s this movie… and a surfing movie, was the cinematographer’s entire thing. Which, I mean, I don’t know how much of the good look of this movie is him?

Dan: I mean, it looks good! So I’m assuming a lot of it is him.

Dean: Yeah, but, like…

Dan: It’s not lensed badly. And like, it’s definitely, you can feel a lot of influences on it? There's a bunch, like, you know... I mean we’ll get into it later, I guess, but there’s like heavy Argento in this… there’s some heavy, like… It’s pretty interesting, so that’s kind of a shame, to find out he didn’t have as prosperous a career as he probably deserved.

Roxy: Similarly speaking, I was looking up the… I don’t know if you have the music, the score, written down?

Dean, crosstalk: I don’t! I don’t, actually…

Roxy: It’s… Kuniaki Haishima?

Dean: Okay.

Roxy: Er...

Dan: We’re getting these names one hundred percent correct.

Dean: Yeah.

Roxy: Yeah… I’m trying my very best, but… It’s really interesting! He scored mostly anime and video games? And in fact, it’s… this is all Wikipedia information. He’s linked as the score… as the… as the… [sighs] the musician behind the-

Dean: The composer?

Roxy: The composer! That’s the word I’m looking for. There’s gonna be a lot of this in this podcast… Behind this movie, on the movie’s Wikipedia page? But it’s not mentioned on his Wikipedia’s page. So...

Dean: [laughs] Huh, interesting…

Roxy: But mostly video games and anime…

Dan: Get on it, Wikipedia.

Dean: Any, uh, what video games? What’s the best video game he did… I’m just curious.

Roxy: Yeah... Metroid: Other M!

Dean: Oooh! Hmm…

Roxy: He also did a Gundam series… Gundam: Mission to Rise, a TV special. Everything else I have never heard of… but… Requiem from the Darkness is another thing he did, which is the best name ever…

Dean: Anyway… This movie runs a lean hour-forty and builds up an incredible amount of dread, I think, in my opinion. Here’s an interesting bit: barely any of the female leads are given names in this movie? They’re all like “Nurse”, “Bully Nurse”, or like…

Roxy: “Mean Nurse.”

Dean: Yeah, like “Mean Nurse”, and like, I think one’s, uh, “Misconduct Nurse,” or.. not misconduct, but like…

Roxy: Misuse?

Dean: “Misuse Nurse”!

Roxy: Yeah.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: [laughs]

Roxy: Except the doctor, the doctor gets a name.

Dean: Yeah, so there’s like, there’s a small cast, um, Kōichi Satō is our sort-of lead, “Dr. Akiba”, he’s like… the chief, not the chief but he’s like the main guy that we follow through most of the movie. There’s Michiko Hada as “Dr. Nakazono”. She’s the doctor that sort of talks about the mirrors she’s like the… other focus. Masanobu Takashima as Dr. Ouzzz… O-Ou-zuu-mi… zumi?

Dan: “Uozumi”, I believe? Something like that.

Dean, crosstalk: He’s the guy who’s really about falsifying that report in that one bit?

Dan: He’s cracking up throughout the whole thing.

Dean: Yeah, he’s cracking the whole time.

Roxy: He was in Godzilla vs. Biolante.

Dean: Interesting…

Dan: That’s a good one to be in.

Dean, slight crosstalk: And Shirō Sano as “Dr. Akai”, the creepy doctor who’s the boss of all the creepy doctors… He actually made this movie in between roles, in All Out Attack and Final Wars. Godzilla.

Roxy: Wow!

Dean: Yeah. Like it was... his filmography is: All Out Attack, this movie, Final Wars.

Roxy: I’m going to guess a lot of Japanese actors are Godzilla veterans, but…

Dean: [laughs] Um, I mean, I… there’s a couple-

Dan: Well this is Toho, too, so he’s probably-

Dean, crosstalk: Yeah, it’s Toho, it’s all internal.

Dan: He’s probably got a contract and they-

Dean: Oh! And they, uh, the actress who plays the “Mean Nurse” is in Tokyo Drift for probably, like, half a second.

Roxy: Wow!

Dan: Really!

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Oooh…

Roxy: Connections, connections…

Dean: Yeah. So, we’ll get to that…  we’ll have our Fast & Furious discussions at some point…

Roxy: In this?

Dean: In this… not today!

Roxy: Ah, okay.

Dan: Don’t... I just wouldn’t rule it out…

Roxy: Never rule that out.

Dean: Yeah, never rule it out! Please note if you want to, you can watch the movie beforehand, ‘cause a lot of this is gonna be… sort of incoherent? Like the movie?

Roxy: The movie’s a little difficult to follow.

Dean: The movie’s was a little difficult…

Roxy: Yeah, surprisingly… harder to follow… not harder to follow, but harder to kinda understand what was going on the second time I watched it?

Dean: [laughs]

Dan: Interesting…

Roxy: Because… well we can get into it, but it’s-

Dean: Yeah there’s a reason for that and I understand…

Dean: But yeah it’s not… Scary? I didn’t really think this movie was very frightening?

Dan: No, it definitely has an atmosphere though? That I think it nails pretty well, but I wouldn’t… eh, yeah, it wasn’t as scary… it was FUN.

Dean: It was fun!

Dan: I thought it had  a very good sort of a... like propulsive kind of narrative even though you never know what’s going on?  But that’s part of why I found it so interesting is ‘cuz it kept, uh… kept you on your toes? And was just really weird?

Roxy: Iit nails the atmosphere, and I think that’s all it’s really going for, honestly.

Dean: Yeah, so the movie opens with… Dr. Akiba is on the overnight shift at like the worst hospital, probably ever made.

Dan: Yeah, it’s- the movie opens with like everyone not being able to do anything, right? They’re understaffed, the staff isn’t getting paid at the beginning of this movie, like no one’s receiving paychecks, they’re out of everything you need to help anyone in the hospital?

Dean: They’re barely out of medical school? [Dan laughs] Like half the staff are untrained nurses?

Roxy, slight crosstalk: Yeah. They can’t do anything? And that forms a significant part of their character arcs in the movie, is just trying to do things?

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: So they’re just barely trained and they only have like six rooms to put anyone in?

Roxy: Right. They have more than that, I think we just don’t see them…

Dean: [sighs] Maybe, it doesn’t feel like…

Dan, crosstalk: It doesn’t feel like it.

Dean, crosstalk: It doesn’t feel like they have more than, like, six rooms for patients to be in…

Dan: Yeah, so most of the staff is incompetent and they also seem to live in a hellscape outside of the hospital?

Dean: There’s ONE shot outside of the hospital, er, not one shot, but there’s like one moment outside of the hospital where we follow the ambulance that sort of leads us into the plot? We start in a hospital and then we stay in the hospital and then we cut to this ambulance just driving in like  this industrial zone? And it’s just like all the hospitals in this city are sort of closed. Or they’re not taking anyone.

Dan: Well this, I think, is a good kind of-

Dean: This is “Central Hospital” by the way.

Dan: Yeah, okay… Because this is kind of a question I have about just hospital operation. Do ambulances just drive around going on the radio saying, “Hey! Who can take us?” I never really understood- I don’t t-

Dean: I don’t think that’s how that works?

Dan: My grasp of the world is that’s not how that works...

Dean, slight crosstalk: I would assume that each hospital has an ambulance connected to it?

Dan: Yes, I believe that’s-

Dean: Or like a team of EMT drivers?

Roxy: And when you call in the closest hospital answers, or gets the assignment?

Dan: So this film already opens in a really weird- ‘cuz the first thing we really see-

Dean: I mean, it could be-

Dan: It could be a cultural thing.

Dean, crosstalk: It could be a cultural thing.

Dan: We don’t really know. Either way, it’s definitely a creepy, like - so the movie opens with just a siren and a disembodied radio voice, like someone’s looking for help, and there doesn't seem to be any, right? And that’s just an interesting, I mean, whether or not it-

Dean, crosstalk: As the title forms in brain-

Dan: [laughs] Yeah, brain worms form a title?

Roxy: It’s the coolest… It’s one of the coolest title, like, in a movie, I think… it’s just so...

Dean: It nail- It nails what it wants to do like almost immediately, I think... So the staff of Central Hospital is, like, turning away new patients-

Dan: Yeah, they’re out of room! Get sick somewhere else. It’s good.

Dean, crosstalk: Yeah. They’re like out of room-

Roxy: They don’t have any medical equipment, either, that’s a thing that happens…

Dan: No, they are- they have- every single thing that could go wrong, it is… it’s… what’s the thing... everything that can go- Murphy’s Law?

Dean: Murphy’s Law. Yeah.

Dan: It’s just everything is failing at every level.

Dean: Yeah, so at some point- there’s a gap where nothing really happens? Up until they… the ambulance gets to the hospital and is like “Hey… Like you gotta take-” they wheel in this patient and are like “This patient is infected, it’s really bad, like he might be you know- like we don’t know what’s going on with him, you gotta take him.” And Dr. Akiba is like, “No!” and at that time… seemingly this high value patient, this burn victim-

Dan: Yeah, severe, like, catatonic burn victim.

Dean: Like burns over, I think they said 70% of his body or something like that? ...like falls out of bed and all of the staff in the hospital, like, attends-

Roxy: All six of them.

Dean: All six of the staff,

Dan: This is like overnight, too, right? So it’s like, the, overnight shift…

Dean: They all rush to save this guy and they just leave the ambulance and the infected guy… to… like, leave. Like, they’re like “Get out of here”... After some serious malpractice goes on-

Roxy: It’s an accident.

Dan: I think the film- it’s interesting, the thing that’s interesting that I think why it’s so chaotic in the beginning is that so that when we get to this scene you don’t blame anyone? Necessarily? ‘Cause the amount of stress that they’re under, like everything, just- everyone is just… frayed.

Dean, crosstalk: ‘Cuz the movie coalesces into that moment. Like it stops, finally. [Dan: Yeah. When everyone’s…

Dan: ‘Cuz it is, a, chaotic paced movie before that. The editing is, I think, purposefully, like… ah… keeps you-

Roxy, crosstalk: Disorienting.

Dan: Yeah, keeps you off balance.

Dean: Yeah. There’s a really good moment that I wanted to mention where there’s that kid who comes into the hospital and he’s like got his headphones on. And he starts bleeding out of his ears because they haven’t been looking at him? Like they just have not noticed that he’s a zombie?

Roxy, slight crosstalk: the music was keeping his blood at bay. Right? That’s how I kinda saw that scene.

Dean: And then the nurse turns directly to the camera as the siren theme starts playing, and she’s like- she looks at us, and says like, “Call Dr. Akiba now!” And then it immediately cuts away to a quiet scene. And it’s just like that pace, every time something happens the siren starts going and then cuts away to silence and it’s really off kilter.

Roxy: I was commenting when we were watching it earlier today that there’s so many cuts like that, where’s it’s super loud, and it’s not necessarily the siren, it’s just the music starts to rise and then it cuts to silence. And it [unintelligable] and then that scene rises up and it cuts to silence. And they get tighter and shorter as, I think, the movie goes on, that’s what- I didn’t pay attention to whether or not that was doing that, but that’s what I imagine it does.

Dean: Yeah. So they commit some malpractice due to a misunderstanding of what a doctor meant to say versus said?

Roxy: But whether or not- I’m pretty sure that’s a thing ‘cuz I think a nurse said that he did say what she thought he said later on, he’s like, “We’re not blaming people over here!” That was a thing, there was a dialogue about that.

Dean: So, calcium chlorate is what he said? And I’m wondering how much the subtitles on this film plays with how that moment played out? ‘Cause I was wondering if, like, we could understand it naturally… if it does sound like he’s saying something else? But  the subtitles clearly say he says, “Get Calcium Chlorate!” And then afterwards he goes, “I said CHLORIDE. Calcium chloride.”

Roxy: The nurse says that later on, like “oh, he did say chlorate,” yeah.

Dean: Yeah, the nurse reinforces what we assumed was the correct thing ‘cause we saw it, like we read it saying “chlorate”, so we were like, “Yeah he said chlorate definitely.”.

Roxy: They’re under a lot of stress, they’re not paid very well, can you blame her?

Dean: No, I know but… this guy, this high profile patient  dies, uh and they all sort of… decide to, well not “they all”, they don’t all decide, but, one of the doctors, um, Uozumi. Uozumi? Uozumi decides to sort of falsify the report to the… the healthhhhh……. Service?

Dan, crosstalk: Yeah whoever oversees…That’s been a thing… coming up.

Dean: Yeah,  whoever’s gonna pick him up… because he has no family, so no one’s gonna claim the body, so they’re gonna do like a health report. They decide to melt him?

Roxy: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah… [laughter]

Dean: [laughing] To speed up cellular decay?

Roxy: Because if they did an autopsy at that point they would be able to tell that this chemical was in his body which sort of implicates them…

Dean: They have to ruin his bloodstream more.

Dan: They’re trying to sweat the poison out of him.

Roxy: Which was commented on ‘cause he was already burnt so might as well get more burned. There’s a lot of goop when you see him… dissolving, it’s… like… the bandages keep bubblin’, it’s like, uh, gross.

Dan, crosstalk: It’s really awesome.

Dean, crosstalk: Oh, yeah, like his fart gas kind of escapes…

Dan: [laughs]

Roxy: Oh, does that, I-

Dean: Yeah! ‘Cuz there’s a scene where he’s like bubblin’ and the doctor’s like- it’s like a jumpscare for like, not a jump scare, but it’s like a bit of a horror-tense moment where the nurse is like, “Oh my god!” And then the doctor comes in and he’s like, “It’s just gas that makes them move after death.” And while they’re burning they’re like-

Dan: They have like seventy heaters-

Dean, crosstalk: Seventy heat lamps!

Dan: -just pointed at this dude and he’s like sitting on a gurney in the middle of a dungeon or something.

Roxy: Yeah, in the room where Freddy Krueger must live on his days off?

Dan: Yeah the thing that has to be said around, uh, this p-

Dean: This is like the turning point…

Dan: Yeah, the film kinda transitions from like “Oh, I guess they work in a hospital” to “they work in a parking garage that fucked a boiler room?”

Dean: [laughs]

Roxy: It’s not inaccurate…

Dan: Yeah, it’s like this huge-

Roxy, crosstalk: It’s in the industrial part of Japan…

Dan: It turns into this, like, industrial punk like- you want like a punk band to start playing in the hallways of this…

Dean: This gothic castle of industry and...

Roxy: But…I wanna point out because- I think this is the way the movie goes, and I could be wrong in this... I’m pretty sure it starts out in, like.- from the beginning the patient hallway always look like that, there’s always pipes in the ceiling-

Dan: Yeah, but it- Sorry, keep going.

Roxy: Well, I was gonna say I think it’s both the lighting, because it becomes dark and also I think the movie just stops taking place in the other hospital rooms and almost entirely takes place in the ones that look shitty? And it kinda feeds in this sense of… oh, they’re kinda trapped in this… space.

Dan: Yeah, but the lighting keeps getting more and more stylized, so even if it’s, you know, if you light it flatly, it looks... “oh that’s a weird space for a hospital” but once it’s lit like it’s, uh, you know, from hell, then you’re like, “oh boy.”

Dean: Yeah, it’s kinda crazy. I really like the set design, like, a lot.

Roxy: It’s really, really good, it’s a really good… like....

Dean: Tensions are high in this movie.

Dan: This is a movie that doesn’t give you a break. The throttle is pressed.

Dean: Yeah. So, we haven’t even touched upon the actual, like, rest of the thrust of the movie, so… Malpractice is done, they’re burning this g- or like, they’re melting this guy to get rid of the toxins. They left that infected dude in the hospital?

Roxy: The ambulance did…

Dean: Yeah, the ambulance sort of didn’t… they leave the, the guy there? And the ambulance leaves. Which starts the plot in earnest, I think a little bit- like,  not really, ah, it’s hard to describe.

Dan, slight crosstalk: It’s weird, it’s like 40 minutes into the movie or something], right, like it’s probably close, pretty close to halfway, until it’s like, “Oh that’s what this is about, I guess?”

Dean, slight crosstalk: Yeah. So there’s another chief doctor who I think went to- was he the one who went to take the nap?

Dan: No, I think that’s two different guys.

Roxy: Yeah, yes, he was asleep in Room 4, the other doctor who the “surture” doctor was talking to took a nap in a different…

Dan: Suture.

Roxy: Suture…. Took a nap in a different room- also gonna be a lot of mispronunciations in this podcast- Yeah, ‘cause there’s two of them and he was asleep in Room 4.

Dean, crosstalk: That just means you read a lot.

Roxy: Yeah, uh huh.

Dean: [laughs]

Roxy: Uh, he was asleep in Room 4, which is coincidentally the room next to the room that the malpractice took place in: Room 3.

Dan: Right, yeah, it gets confusing, there was a doctor who just, like, took a nap, and then we meet, way later, another doctor… who…. was napping? But he wasn’t the same doctor that was the one we saw go nap.

Dean: And that doctor is… Dr. Akai. The chief, like, I want to say he’s the head doctor, who-

Roxy: I think every single scene he’s in is framed in the middle of the shot standing perfectly still, starting into the camera. And it’s the most unsettling thing in the world…

Dean: Yeah.He’s, uh, a prop? That is the lead actor in a Frankenstein movie.

Dan: Yeah, he looks like he’s just being propped up by like, he’s a human suit with, like, you know, they’re just hanging up by strings or something.

Dean and Roxy: Yeah.

Roxy, crosstalk: He looks dead.

Dean, crosstalk: He’s really creepy, he-he stares directly into the camera.I don’t think he’s ever- you’re right, I don’t think he’s ever-

Dan, crosstalk: There’s like no profile, really.

Dean, crosstalk: -framed… out of that?

Dean: But, uh, he’s played by Shirō Sano. So he, shows up and he starts talking about the patient that they recovered from the ambulance.

Dan: Yeah, so.. what happens? They remember that they just left, potentially-

Roxy: No, the nurse sees it on the monitor and comes to alert the doctor, and he’s like, “I told them not to put hi- to leave him here!”

Dan: So then they go to find him and then he’s gone, right?

Dean: I think we’re missing a-[sighs] Oh, my god… there’s so much that goes on in this movie-

Dan: Yeah, it’s a- [sighs]

Dean: ‘Cause we have to mention the-the patient woman? Like the-the sort of deranged woman that is in the room when they committed malpractice and they sort of, like, shut her behind a curtain but she heard all of it?

Roxy: Yeah. But, eh, I don’t think they - they don’t seem to really care about that?

Dean, slight crosstalk: But they don’t really… resolve that too much? I mean she’s important, as, like, a figure?

Roxy: She sees ghosts in mirrors…

Dean: Yeah!

Dan, slight crosstalk: There’s so much going on in this movie...

Dean, crosstalk: It’s a ghost movie, it’s a zombie movie, it’s an outbreak, sort of gross movie…

Roxy: It’s none of those things? It’s a-

Dean: It’s a psychological thriller at the same tim- like it’s all kinds of…

Roxy: It’s a tense bottle episode movie? That’s just- yeah.

Dean: Yeah… um… So, they-

Dan: But they go back to find the guy on the gurney and then he’s kinda not there, right?

Dean: [sighs] He’s sort of… melting into green goop?

Dan: Mm, Right.

Roxy: Well, then, this is Dr. Akai…

Dan: Yeah, ‘cause Dr. Akai took him and was like, “I’m working on this dude.”

Roxy: And says, “You need to see this, I’m anxious to see what you think.”

Dan: Yeah.

Dean, slight crosstalk: And they see a face in the goop and then later they think, “Oh we hallucinated a human face, ‘cause he expected it?

Dan: Yeah…

Roxy: “He smiled right at me,” and then Dr. Akai’s like, “Me too.” And it’s like ooo… But they don’t show you this, it’s just- you’re supposed to imagine this goop face.

Dan, crosstalk: Yeah you’re really- the movie, like, it feels gross but you don’t get to- there’s not a lot of... effects grossness in it.

Dean: Yeah. I mean, there’s a few… So this green goop guy…

Dan, crosstalk: Like this melting man-

Roxy, faint, crosstalk: Green goop guy, that’s a good-

Dean: Yeah, like this melting green goop-

Roxy: Triple-G.

Dean: The Triple-G…

Dan: [laughs]

Dean: ..Starts to- I mean I guess, is the patient zero of this... infection, where it goes from character to character...  that sort of amplifies their… right? It's almost character to character… It amplifies their, like, flaw in terms of… what they can’t do.

Roxy: Right.

Dan: Yes.

Roxy: Or, it goes character to character at first? And then I think it kinda like starts going to multiples at the same time, just keeps cutting between them -

Dean: Yeah, it’s just intercut.

Roxy: But it also… not just their flaws but also the hospital’s flaws? ‘Cause there’s one scene where a woman starts boiling all the used medical equipment because they don’t have any. So might as well reuse the ones so she boils them but she puts her hands in the deep fryer too.

Dan: Right so the guy basically melts into nothing, right?

Dean, crosstalk: Yeah, like liquid.

Dan:  Yeah, but doesn’t something, like, escape, still? Is there like a- ‘cause you never SEE it, it’s only all talked about, and kinda off camera.

Dean, crosstalk: Well the camera moves like something’s moving.

Dan: Well but I think something like emerges from- I think the idea’s that there’s a thing that comes out of the goop pile?

Dean [laughs]

Roxy: We’re missing an important part. ‘Cause Dr. Akai and Akiba and-

Dan: It’s just tough to keep in any kind of logical…

Roxy: Dr. Akai and Akiba and Dr….

Dean: Uozumi?

Roxy: Uozumi, all leave the room and leave one of the nurses in there who watches it melt more and kinda passes out and then when they come back in- I don’t really remember if she’s in the room at that point- when they come back in it’s gone, and they’re like “Where’d it go?” and then...

Dan: But there’s like a busted vent. Like you see slime like movin’, like there’s slime residue… Like something’s movin’.

Dean: [laughs]

Roxy: A really good shot is when the busted vent...

Dan, crosstalk: Yeah, from the p- from, you’re in, like, the vent, the perspective of the vent and it moves back and they’re just like-

Dean, crosstalk: And they’re watching the camera-

Dan: Looking right at it?

Dean: Yeah, it’s really-

Roxy: And then they go to search for it, but then shit starts happening-

Dan, slight crosstalk: There’s... theoretically a goop beast in this movie.

Roxy, slight crosstalk: But.. it’s not? It never shows up again? Right?

Dan: Yeah… no... I- ehn… I don’t think so…

Dean, crosstalk: Well! Well!

Dan: That’s the thing, it seems like this movie sets up what movie it is? Every scene? And then every scene contradicts that. And the following scene is like, “Nah, it’s not REALLY that.” ‘Cause we think it’s a goop monster movie, they go looking for the goop monster, right? And then…

Dean: Well you think it’s like a psychological, sort of doctor malpractice horror, and then-

Dan, slight crosstalk: Right- well you think it’s a ghost story, then you just think it’s like a- [laughs]

Dean crosstalk: [horrified noises] Oh…. I forgot!

Roxy: Because before the medical malpractice the woman’s talking in the mirror and then the one nurse finds her in the hallway and looks and then a hand comes onto her shoulder and it’s like what the fuck was that?

Dan: There’s like a big-

Dean: There’s a swing motif, where these swings are, like, moving by themselves… outside the hospital...

Dan, crosstalk: Outside the hospital! Like there’s a playground in front of this… hospital…

Dean: Oh, jesus… there’s-there’s so much, going on...

Dan: Yeah! It’s non-stop.

Dean: So there’s the swings that move on its own, there’s the woman who gets a hand touched at her- uh-

Dan, slight crosstalk: From a mirror.

Dean: From a mirror. And then there is this whole thing, and I wanted to- I don’t really know if I’m a capable enough, like, film critic to talk about the… the sort of essence what this is going, but there’s whole on-going thing with… mirrors? And colors? And… uh, perception? That is sort of like a thematic throughline  in this movie that we haven’t touched on at all.

Roxy: Well, I don’t think you really can touch on it until-

Dan, crosstalk: ‘Til you realize what the film’s kinda trying to do…

Dean, crosstalk: Until you get to the end?

Dean: But- you ever wonder how red is always red?

Roxy: I had a Psychology teacher who came into the classroom once and said “No one knows if red is the same to everyone, we just all assume that one single thing is red.”

Dean: Well, yeah… that’s…

Dan: Yeah.

Roxy: So…

Dean: Oh, the original Japanese title of this movie is “Kansen” which is comprised of the two kanji that forms in the brain ooze at the beginning. Separately the kanji means “emotion” or “color”? Or “emotion” AND “color”. And then put together it’s Infection, or whatever. But separated the way that it could be read is, like, “feeling” and “dye.” Like “color dye”.

Roxy, slight crosstalk: I don’t know enough about Japanese to comment on that, but…

Dean: I know! According to Google Translate, it’s-

[Dan and Roxy laugh]

Dean: -it’s directly “feeling” or “dye” and then I was reading somewhere else online that said “color” and “emotion” were the two separated things, so I thought that was interesting…

Roxy: Do Japanese words- is that an important thing in Japanese, what the individual symbols represent?

Dean: It’s a lot of- from what little I know, and just from being a person who enjoys media, it seems like that’s more of the basis for puns and wordplay? Is like the combination of what a single word can be read as separately? Is how puns and wordplay sort of work. A lot of people get infected, the flaws of the staff are sort of amplified. Like there’s this woman, one of the nurses, who can’t use syringes right?

Dan: She can’t find the vein, right? Her thing is that she never finds the vein and just sticks people in the wrong spot.

Dean: Yeah and throughout the movie they cut back to her sort of practicing on- she was practicing on the burn victim and then she practices on, just like some test flesh for a little bit, I think? And she gets infected and starts to-

Roxy: Starts to do it on herself.

Dean: -do it on herself. She’s sort of jabbing her arm with these syringes.

Dan: It’s a pretty creepy moment.

Dean: Honestly, I get really skeeved out about needles-

Dan: You’re not a needle boy?

Dean: I’m not a needle person at all, so when I saw the DVD menu of this and there was a needle in it, I was like “Uh oh, I’m not gonna be able to survive this”. This is fine, it’s cool, and it’s not too graphic for me.

Roxy: The DVD menu, which is going to be a very important part of the show I feel like…

Dean: Yeah, were going to review all the DVD menus.

Dan, crosstalk: Really it’s what I want to talk about, is the DVD menu of this movie.

Roxy: Well, we’re just gonna mention it, I think. I think it’s a really interesting collection of all the creepy moments that are really interspersed throughout the movie? And I personally think wildly just makes you just not expect what you’re about to watch.

Dan: Yeah, it’s not……. Yeah. The context around those shots is way, like, “oh that’s not what that is.”

Roxy: It feels like it’s going to a creepy J-Horror ghost story and it’s… not!

Dean: But it also… is?

Roxy: The fact that there’s that ambiguity is not indicated in the DVD menu.

Dean: Yeah, no, not at all.

Roxy: Also no special features, I want to know how this movie was made.

Dean: Ah, man, yeah, that’d be cool, to like learn about this movie a little bit more.

Roxy: Yeah, ‘cause there’s, like, nothing online.

Dean: Who’s the nurse who starts to eat the ravioli? Is that the mean nurse?

Roxy, crosstalk: I think that’s the mean nurse.

Dan, crosstalk: I think that’s the bully nurse. Her thing is she eats a bit.

Dean, crosstalk: Okay so there’s the syringe nurse, who can’t do syringes so she sticks herself when she’s infected and then bursts into goo.

Dan: She explodes.

Roxy: She’s bullied by the mean nurse who gets exploded on.

Dean: And that’s how she gets infected.

Roxy: And then she eats the ravioli. And then she I think later on-

Dan: Then she’s the one walking on the ceiling. She’s doing the weird Spider-Man...

Roxy: She’s on the ceiling, yeah.

Dean: So when we see Ravioli, she’s eating, like, skin, right?

Roxy: I have no idea, it looks like a ravioli to me! And she’s smiles and it’s a weird scene-

Dean: It’s a really good shot, it’s just like her nose down up to the shoulders and she’s eating what looks like-

Roxy: A ravioli.

Dean: It looks like a ravioli, yeah-

Roxy: Out of what looks like an instant pot or something, and she’s like “They left it for us.”

Dean: But I think it’s flesh, I think it’s human flesh.

Dan: I think that’s what you’re supposed to take it as but it’s not terribly convincing.

Dean, some crosstalk: It’s not a very good effect.

Dan: It looks like she’s just eatin’ her lunch.

Dean: It’s like a dry, non-sauced ravioli. Like, that’s the texture.

[Dan laughs]

Roxy: Filled with blood, I guess. Or goop.

Dean: And then she eats it and smirks and it’s like really good.

Roxy, crosstalk: And then she’s on the ceiling.

Dan: There’s also someone, is he a nurse? The guy? The guy who can’t do sutures?

Roxy: I’m pretty sure he’s a nurse.

Dan: Yeah, so then he starts-

Dean: He can’t sew up injuries, he can’t do stitches.

Dan: So then he starts going kinda suture crazy, and, you know.

Roxy: Suture crazy, that’s a good album name.

Dean, crosstalk: How does he sorta end up?

Dan: I don’t even remember, didn’t he… he marked up one of the…. Didn’t he start performing sutures on one of the patients just laying around, like on his gut?

Roxy: And then the doctor who took a nap reprimands him, and then he goes into the-

Dan: The doctor who took a nap who yelled at him, like, “you can suture your- get out of here!”

Roxy: We should specify: the doctor who took a nap who told us, the audience, he was taking a nap. Not the other one who was already napping.

Dan: Who apparently, yeah, who woke up from a nap we didn’t see taken.

Roxy: Who wasn’t really napping. But…

Dan: Well…

[Dean sighs]

Roxy: So yeah he’s doing sutures and he’s suturing in a room for like the whole length of the movie, like literally the entire length of the movie he’s in a room that sometimes gets cut back to?

Dan: Yeah, this entire hospital is falling into chaos and this dudes just- no one goes to get him?

Roxy: I just think they forget he’s there, none of the characters interact with him except for the napping doctor. And none of the other characters ever interact with him either except to say, “There’s a dude napping in Room 5, we can’t go in there.” And it’s like, well, okay, cool….

Dean: So Dr. Uozumi sort of hallucinates that he sees- ‘cause he’s really conflicted with dread about the malpractice that was committed? That’s sort of his flaw that, I think, sort of comes out when he’s infected? So he hallucinates… can someone explain what’s going on?

[Dan makes confused noises] No.

Roxy: He hallucinates a dude sitting on a bed who he killed earlier?

Dean: Okay, like a patient that he previously-

Dan: I think it’s, yeah, like a patient that had previously died under his care, I think? Next to a guy who is dying under his care, the guy in the yellow, like thats-

Roxy: He broke his leg, then he’s like “Oh, I’m so old, I can’t…” whatever, he like-

Dan: He’s begging him for pain pills and shit, ‘cause he’s like, “my chest…” It’s really bizarre, nothing in this movie is easy to explain-

Roxy, crosstalk: The ghost hallucination convinces Dr. Uozumi to kill him and Dr. Akiba walks in on him doing that and says, like, “No.” And then at this point the guy starts bleeding everywhere, green blood, and like, says, “It’s in my head, my head is going to explode.”

Dan: Yeah, I think he said, like, “He’s in my head, he got inside my head,” or something… uh, you know, okay…

Dean, crosstalk: Yeah, ‘cause so through the movie they’re like, “Okay, we have an infection,” once they figure out there’s something weird going on. They have an infection, they think it’s an airborne virus, and then at some point they-

Roxy: They do nothing to protect themselves.

Dean: They do nothing to protect themselves in that.

Dan: No! They keep putting themselves, like, face first into melting people with no protection on their face, no gloves, fuck it.

Roxy: The one time they actually try to quarantine it, it’s in a plastic bag that is not-

Dan: Yeah, they literally put saran wrap over a person. They don’t seal it! They just lay it overtop and leave!

Roxy: It’s not even ‘cause saran wrap kind of sticks to itself? This looks like they just put a plastic tarp overtop of her, you can see through.

Dean, crosstalk: That’s all it was…

Roxy: Then she reaches through… and then she infects, I think the Syringe Girl. There’s a scene where she’s on the ground and you see Plastic Wrap Nurse on the bed, standing behind her, like a fucking ghost? And I thought she was floating the first time, like holy shit!

Dan: But even none of that makes sense, ‘cause they- so she’s laying under the plastic sheet, she apologizes for something, she’s got, like- her stomach is getting all, like, distended, and then like something leaves. And another nurse comes into that room and says, “Oh, all of her internal organs are gone!” So now I’m thinking we got a goop monster, we got an organ monster running around…

Dean: Oh, yeah, we were excited for the organ monster! For a hot minute…

Dan, crosstalk: Yeah, I thought were going to get- Doesn’t Dead Alive have an organ monster?

[Dean makes a “I don’t know” noise]

Dan: Oh, well you need to see Dead Alive.

Dean, crosstalk: Invader Zim.

Dan: Yeah. I don’t think we get any of that, unfortunately. But then we see that nurse, again, walking around like a ghost? Like this movie is never- never settles.

Dean: Please… watch this movie before listening- I mean, if you made it this far in this episode, I’m sorry.

Roxy: Oops. Listen, I don’t think anything we’re saying… you don’t really… I don’t think you can listen to this and say, “I get this movie,” honestly, I think it’s like…

Dean: Yeah, like, I’m sorry, this is a really weird barrier to entry on this one, but…

Roxy: I mean, that’s The Binder. For clarification purposes: The Binder has 96 discs in it, and we’re watching them in order. So… fate gave us Infection first.

Dean: This is not the one I’d choose as an entryway to…

Roxy: But, somehow… I’m hoping it’s not all downhill from here, because this was a good one.

Dean: I like this movie!

Dan, crosstalk: Yeah this movie’s amazing.

Dean: Okay, so it’s not… great.

Roxy: I think it’s really good, I really liked it! My personal-

Dean: I think it’s a little scattershot- I mean, I’m sorry I cut you off-

Roxy: No! It’s fine, it’s fine.

Dean: I think it’s a little scattershot, even though it works in that regard, I think it’s a little too much? It could have been clearer, it’s not all that scary, there should have been more goo.

Dan: No, the goo quotient was low considering how much goo could have been in it.

Dean: There was a lot of goo but it was a low-

Roxy: A lot of promised goo, but not a lot of goo was delivered.

Dan: Its goo count was a little bit-

Dean: Yeah, so go on...

Roxy: So I was just gonna say my own personal rating for movies, I guess, since I’ve started watching a lot more of them have been: how much has this hold my attention.

Dean: I thought you were gonna say how much goo is in it.

Dan: Yeah, I was really hoping for the goo.

Roxy, slight crosstalk: Well, that’s part two! But, like, how interested am I in this movie, how much does this offset my ADHD that I don’t have to check my phone every five seconds, and this movie for kind of did that really well. Like I was invested the entire time, and I think that was because of the… it just filled you with a sense of dread and the editing was just really disorienting. And you’re just trying to get your bearings and it never gives you your bearings?

Dan: Which is why I think- ‘cause I watched this a second time and I was nowhere near as interested the second time as I was the first time, really?

Dean: I think I agree with you on that.

Dan: Like, this movie’s a movie that is great in the moment but it never coalesces, I think? And I think it’s almost impossible- I don’t think you could make this movie coalesce, like it’s so… kind of insane.

Dean, crosstalk, sighs: I mean, you gotta do page 1 rewrite once you get to the end. ‘Cause I feel like it seems to be-

Dan: But I don’t know if I’d want that, like it swings for the fences so much that I don’t know if I’d want to reign that in, in exchange for coherence. It’s tough, but you know.

Roxy: Yeah, like for instance, swing for the fences: there’s a scene where a woman goes into the waiting room of the hospital and there’s a woman standing there with flowers and she’s like, “I’m here to see my son, the burn victim,” and it cuts to the mirror, or it swings to the mirror, and she’s headless? That is the only part of her body that does not show up in the mirror. Her hands do, she’s holding flowers, it’s not like a ghost that just is wearing clothing, it’s just her head isn’t there. And then she walks out, and you’re like, “What the fuck is that?” But like, if you take that out, it’s almost like is missing-

Dean: And this is the frantic lady who’s sort of been throughout the movie?

Roxy: ...What?

Dean: The lady in the thing is the same woman that’s been there, sort of the whole time.

Dan: The flower lady?

Dean: The flower lady, yeah.

Roxy, crosstalk, in background: Oh, I didn’t get that...

Dan: No… oh you mean like the sort of crazy one they sort of let walk around… I don’t think they’re the same lady…

Dean, crosstalk: Are you sure?

Dan: No!

Dean: I thought that they were the same lady…

Roxy: I don’t think so…

Dan: We maybe need to watch this movie again.

Dean: Maybe I could watch this movie again…

Roxy: I mean, regardless, she could be, but-

Dan: Yeah, it might be, I just never made that connection.

Roxy: Um… But yeah, that’s an example of a scene that doesn’t make any sense in the moment, doesn’t make any sense when you what the ending of the movie is, either?

Dean: Yeah, which I think we should bring up…

Roxy: Well, I mean, it kinda does, it kinda does, yeah, do you wanna go into it?

Dean: No, I don’t…

[Dan laughs]

Roxy: I can go into it, so at the end of the movie Dr. Akiba is talking to Dr. Akai and at this point almost everyone’s dead, except for Dr. Akiba and Akai.

Dan: Yeah, everyone got gooed in some way.

Dean: Everyone got gooed in some way, blown up… melted.

Roxy: Yeah, or is just being crazy-

Dan, crosstalk: Organs evacuated.

Dean: Or is just being a ghost or a monster at this point.

Roxy: Yeah, yeah. So Dr. Akai explains to Akiba-

Dan, laughing: Or still’s napping.

Roxy: Or napping! Well, not at this point, maybe, ‘cause the… yeah. So! Dr. Akai says, “It’s not an airborne virus, it’s a mindborne virus!” Which is not what he says-

Dan: It’s like Grant Morrison shit. It’s a mind virus.

Dean: It’s like an idea virus.

Roxy: Right, that makes you, like hallucinate? And then he starts talking about what really happened in Room 3. Turns out Dr. Akai was the one in the bed the whole time?

Dean: Yeah, the burn victim is revealed to be Dr. Akai? Who has been creepy this whole time?

Dan: You know the guy who’s looked like a corpse the whole fucking movie.

Dean: Yeah, I mean… Yeah, so they’re burning him-

Dan: Which is why- I don’t know, when I was watching it, I didn’t think he was dead ‘cause he looked so dead, you can’t- that’s too obvious! But no this movie’s like “fuck you”.

Dean: So Dr. Akiba starts to remember the incident in Room 3. And the nameplate of who the patient was turns into “Akai”.

Roxy: But then at this point he’s watching himself get killed?

Dean: Yeaaah…..

Roxy: And then suddenly, one of the doctors who left at the beginning of the movie to go home for the night comes back in and says, “Who are you talking to?” And it cuts to him in a perfectly normal hospital, looking into a mirror with Akai in the mirror. And then she walks past.

Dean: She is Dr. Akai-

Roxy: No, she walks past the frame and then it’s just Akiba in the thing. He was hallucinating this whole time! And then there’s dead bodies everywhere!

Dean: Like stabbed with red blood, specifically. Instead of green…

Dan, crosstalk: Everyone’s been really green bloody, the goo’s all been green, which is also a thing.

Roxy, crosstalk: And all the lights in the movie have been green up ‘til this point, kind of, a lot of them. Like the movie plays with perception of color.

Dan: The more expressionistic the movie gets the more the color leans green. That’s just what, yeah.

Roxy: And she’s freaking out, and he cuts himself open and he sees green blood and then he sees red blood. He walks past the mirror and he sees green blood in the mirror but himself is bleeding red blood. Eventually he’s taken away, he’s arrested I believe.

Dan: I believe so, yeah.

Roxy: For the murder of four fucking people.

[Dan and Dean laugh]

Roxy: And then she is in the hospital-

Dean: Like cleaning up after- She’s like taking a look around, at what’s been going on.

Roxy: Yeah. At this point two things happen: you notice that the suture guy comes out, he wakes up in his room where he’s been surturing--- suturing?

Dean and Dan: Suturing.

Roxy: Whatever, and he goes to wake up the napping dude ‘cause it’s like seven AM-

Dan: Flesh knitting.

[Dean laughs]

Roxy: Flesh knitting. Right! Because he actually performed on some napping dude who was yelling at him earlier. The second thing that you realize is that it cuts to a news station where the ambulance never dropped off the dude! He was never in the hospital!

Dean, sighing: Oh, god…

Roxy: So the person who you’re led to believe began this infection never showed up.

Dan: Yeah. Well, they showed up, but they didn’t stay, right? He told the guy to leave and you think he left, and left the dude? He didn’t, though, he left with the patient to go to try to get him help.

Dean, sighing: Oh geez, this is…. HORRENDOUS to listen to.

Dan, crosstalk: Yes, this movie is like a bludgeoning labyrinth. It’s just…

Roxy: So, then the doctor, the woman doctor, who’s still-

Dean, exasperated: We’re doing an awful job describing this film.

[Dan laughs]

Roxy: It’s amazing, the woman doctor- I think that’s kinda-

Dean: We’re accurately describing the movie though, and that’s why I love it.

Roxy, crosstalk: And how you feel.

Dan, crosstalk: Like we’re not misrepresenting how this movie presents itself.

Roxy: And the way, you listening to us talk about this is how you’re going to feel watching it if you watch it, too, that’s how I felt, it’s like, “what is going on… It doesn’t make-” So, the doctor starts hallucinating, or not hallucinating, she starts seeing- she walks out to go find an ambulance that’s coming in and it’s green colored. And she starts looking all around and the apple is green, and all the lights in the hospital are green again, which implies that now she’s infected with whatever.

Dean: With the mind virus.

Roxy: With the mind virus. So the thing that makes this movie, to me, less sensical on a second rewatch is that… none of that was happening? All of that was a hallucination? At what point in the movie does it stop being real and start being a hallucination? Because-

Dean: ‘Cause it was like that from the beginning of the movie.

Roxy: Right. Yeah. And especially from when Akai was there, because Akai was a hallucination the whole time.

Dean: Well, wait a minute, no! Akai really only shows up after-

Roxy, crosstalk: The goop monster.

Dean:  -the malpractice happens, right? Like it’s weird up until that point but then the malpractice happens and you see- like the guy in Room 3, the Room 3 incident happens and the ambulance drops the guy off and then we cut away from that, Room 3 happens, and then after that-

Dan: Is when it gets really fucky.

Dean: -is when we assume that the guy was left there, but after that is when it gets actually fucky. There’s been implications of fucky before that…

Roxy: Well hold on, but the ghost hands are before that.

Dean: The ghost hands show up before that, the swing motif…

Roxy: Way before that. Which is… that’s why it’s so weird, because you’re like, “what is going on.” And here’s the other thing: if it’s his hallucination, which you’re led to believe because he’s talking to Akai, he’s the last survivor of this incident, why the fuck are there scenes with other people hallucinating? If he was the one implied being infected the whole time. Was everyone infected and he just killed them off?

Dan: So the movie… It’s hard to pin down? It does seem…. Like there is... I don’t fucking know. There’s like something about guilt created in the Room 3 incident is what kind of drives this madness. Kind of.

Roxy: It’s a good point - why does the doctor who was not present start hallucinating at the end if the guilt of that is what’s driving this.

Dan: Well no, that’s the thing, I think she was guilty about the bleedy ear man. Rock monster, rock dude.

Roxy, crosstalk: Oh that was her! Oh okay…

Dan: Yeah that was her in the beginning. That was her patient, he died-

Dean: Overnight. When she wasn’t there.

Dan: When she wasn’t there. So I think the idea is that the guilt of that is now driving her into this madness.

Dean: Or maybe the guilt of her not being there to prevent any of the dude’s- Akais- uh, Akiba’s murders.

Dan: Yeaaaaaah.

Dean: One of the, or combination of the two.

Dan: It seems like- I mean, from what I watched, and the second time I kind of ended up falling asleep through this part so I didn’t really watch it but-

Dean, crosstalk: It’s really engaging on the first watch, trust me.

Roxy, crosstalk: I don’t think that’s the fault of the movie, but-

Dan: No, I was also very tired, but yeah this movie’s just a really interesting reflection- heh heh- reflection, ‘cause there’s a big reflection motif, a lot of time which is cool because they have multiple reflections in frame. It’s like a recurring motif.

Dean, crosstalk: The mirror cinematography is awesome.

Roxy: There’s one shot where someone’s walking down the stairs in the industrial part of the hospital, you know, where they make textiles or whatever, I guess, and there’s a mirror opposite the stairs in this weird fucking hallway which doesn’t make any sense, and the shot-

Dan: Yeah, it’s on the landing in, like, a staircase.

Roxy: Yeah, and the shot’s framed around, like, the mirror and it keeps turning and you almost expect something to show up in the mirror that’s not really there? But, like... nothing happens in the mirror and for some reason that’s so compelling to me, that shot, because there’s just a mirror there! Um I-

Dean: Yeah, it’s really cool… I have a note that- sorry, go ahead.

Roxy: No, uh, go ahead!

Dean: I have a note that said-

Dan: [Gibberish], go ahead.

[Roxy laughs]

Dean: God dammit. I have a note that literally said, verbatim, “Mirrors! I want to talk about mirrors and the theme of reflection over the theme of recalling memories.” Which is how they sort of bring up that motif of mirrors in the film, is one of the doctors, I believe Dr. Nakazono, the woman, who does like this weird-

Roxy: She’s the one who does the perception thing in the beginning.

Dean: Yeah. She talks about, like…

Roxy: To the nurse who was waiting on the woman who saw the ghost in the mirror, the crazy woman. She was kind of freaked out by this whole incident so Dr. Nakazono-?

Dan: We really should make this a video podcast so we can have flowcharts and like, you know, a big wall of string connecting all this bullshit together.

Roxy: If every movie in this binder isn’t a convoluted mess I’m not going to be happy.

Dean: I think the next one might be a little bit more straightforward?

Roxy, crosstalk: We’ll get to that, well, maybe, we don’t know.

Dean, crosstalk: I mean, maybe, we don’t know.

Roxy: I mean, the title, implies possibly not. But, so, my thought literally while recording this podcast was that an easy way to probably tell at what point the hallucinations start is what point the colors start changing, and I never fucking thought- I don’t know why I didn’t think of that when I was watching it the second time. But on a third watchthrough, I’m gonna keep an eye out…

Dean: Are you going to watch this movie a third time?

Roxy: Maybe eventually. I would watch it again.

Dan: I don’t know.

Roxy: I would show someone it.

Dean: I would probably watch this movie again.

Dan: I think I would probably give it a wait, and I also think that, uh, I would also wait for other people who hadn’t seen it already? I think this is a good movie to show people, I don’t know if it’s something I’m gonna throw on when I’m bored.

Roxy: Yeah, I totally agree with you. But yeah, when the lights start changing that’s probably a good indication that the hallucinations start.

Dan: ‘Cause there was a motif, so the whole coalescing, the sort of main idea, and stop me if I’m wrong, the idea’s kind of our perceptions are what shape the reality we experience, right? So… yeah, the whole movie seems to be this manifestation of guilt kind of, you know, making you go bugfuck, but it’s signified by kind of the idea of “red is red, well now, what if it’s not?” And you’re kind of in this other space where conventional reality no longer applies. And it seems to be brought on by this guilt, but then there’s also just ghosts hanging out.

Roxy: One other thing, too, is the color thing is interesting, too, because it’s not like when the colors start turning green, there isn’t red? There’s still a lot of red in this movie, and, also some of the things are green? So that’s just an interesting… I would love to sit down with someone who knows movie and color theory really well to kind of like, what red in this scene represents when you’re supposed to start thinking about the colors turning green at this point.

Dean: Well… red is red.

Roxy: Red is red.

Dean: Except for!

Roxy: When it’s not.

Dan: When it’s not.

Dean: When it’s not.

Roxy: When it’s green.

Dean: So what would we give this movie as a goo grade?

Dan: Oooh, goo grade? Ah…

Dean: Out of five! Out of five goo.

Roxy: Specifically for the goo in it?

Dean: Well, I mean, yeah, if it’s a goo movie, we gotta give it a goo grade.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And this is a goo movie.

Dan: I’d give it a…. three.

Dean: I’m giving it a two and a half.

Roxy: I was gonna say two or two and a half, yeah.

Dean: There’s a couple good shots of goo, especially, like… there’s a shot at the end where the goo oozes out of the locker? There’s a lot of goo in that one.

Roxy: “Help me! Help me!”

Dan: It feels like a lot of CG goo, though, and that to me is kind of, like…

Dean: Really? I felt like that was real goo.

Roxy: That’s not real goo?

Dan: I don’t know.

Dean: It didn’t feel like CG to me.

Dan: It felt CG to me.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: And it also felt too late, I wanted goo… you can’t just-

Roxy: Was that Akiba in there? Or Akai?

Dean, crosstalk: I think it’s Akai?

Roxy, crosstalk: It was Akai? Okay.

Dean: ...Wearing the skin of Akiba? I don’t know. Yeah, two and a half, three, goo grade. Um… Doesn’t everyone have a favorite scene?

Roxy: I have a couple of shots that I really like, I think my favorite scene is probably the one in the malpractice room.

Dean: The Room 3 incident?

Roxy: Yeah, because it’s one of the only parts of the movie that stays on a scene for a while? And it’s one of the only parts of the movie where you’re kind of really feeling really tense and there’s nothing weird going on.

Dean: Right. That’s also my favorite, so… It’s just a really well made scene.

Roxy: It’s also the centerpiece of the whole movie.

Dan: Yeah, no, I think that’s clearly kind of the best scene.

Dean: It comes early, but it’s-

Dan: Does it?

Roxy: It’s like halfway.

Dean: It’s not half- it’s like thirty minutes in.

Roxy: Oh, is it?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: It feels a lot later than that.

Dean: No, it’s like the end of act 1, is that.

Dan: Right, structurally! But, like, you’re already exhausted by that point, by that fucking movie I think.

Dean: I think it’s way earlier than you think.

Dan: I thought it was around minute forty, maybe? I thought it was a little longer than…

Dean: I think it’s like, twenty-five minute.

Dan: Wow. It’s a long scene, though, too, right? So it takes place over…

Roxy: Pause the podcast? Uh, we can figure this out? No, I’m kidding…

Dean: No, don’t do that. We don’t care.

Roxy: Uh………….. I forgot what I was going to say. Expect a lot of that.

Dean: Well, that’s that. So we like this movie, I think?

Dan: Yeah, I think so. I definitely liked it the first time, the second time, it’s a little less… the return on investment the second time feels a little lower, like it’s not- I feel like you don’t get out of it that much.

Dean: ‘Cause there wasn’t a lot of amazing… I mean, there’s a lot of good shots, it looks good, I think. But once you see it.

Roxy: That’s kind of the trick with-

Dan: I think that’s the thing, the movie keeps almost promising like we’re going to get to a thing and it never really delivers, so you get good moments but it doesn’t- there’s no bottom, but it feels kind of….

Dean: I appreciate what this movie’s doing, there’s bits about it…

Roxy: And I think, there’s a trick with horror is getting it to feel the same feeling the second time. You know what’s going to come and that’s sense of dread might not be there anymore and that’s a really tricky thing to get right, I think… and whether or not this does it, I don’t think it does, too well, but I was still entertained the second time I was watching it, it was just mostly me trying to figure out what the fuck is going on.

Dean: Yeah, definitely. Alright, well that seems to conclude the first movie in The Binder, how are we feeling?

Roxy: Pretty….. Okay.

[Dean laughs]

Roxy: Here’s the thing: I feel good about this movie, I don’t know… a lot of them don’t look good. I’m really hoping they’re good! I want to like every movie I ever watch.

Dan: I don’t.

Dean: I want to like every movie that I ever watch.

Dan: Oh, yeah I’d like to, but…

Roxy: So I’m hoping it’s not a significant…

Dean: Decrease?

Roxy: Decrease.

Dean: This one started off pretty strong.

Roxy: I know, my hope is that most of these will be things that I will never have watched in my life ever and I got to watch them from watching this.

Dean: So… our next episode is going to be a film called A Thief of Time and it is PBS Mystery Theater, I think.

Roxy: Something like that.

[Dan laughs]

Dean: Something like that.

Roxy: Yeah.

[Dan laughs more]

Dean: So we’re going to be doing that next time.

Roxy, laughing: I’m pretty sure it’s a narrative, it’s a film.

Dean: Yeah, I’m sure it’s a movie.

Roxy: I don’t think it’s a documentary or anything, it’s a movie, but…

Dean, as theme song fades in: We’ll find out. Yeah if you want you can follow us on Twitter @BasementCast and then you can get the links to all of our personal Twitters from there, I believe. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns regarding The Binder or any of these films, you can email us at itcamefrombasement @ gmail.com. And then definitely check us out at our website itcamefromabasement.com.

Roxy: Uh, the email, itcamefromabasement@gmail.com.

Dean: It Came From A Basement at GMAIL…. .com.

Dan: Singular, not basements.

Dean, crosstalk: Sing… ular. Alright, that’s a wrap on us, I think.

Dan: Goodbye friends!

Dean: Goodbye friends!

Roxy: Goodbye friends!

[some mumbling as theme ends and fades away]

Transcript done by Roxy. If you have any questions, comments, concerns, suggestions, or edits for this, any other transcript, or the podcast in general, please email us at itcamefromabasement@gmail.com.